Cluelessness about Islam

And this guy is a high-up archbishop in the Church of England:

He also spoke about the fear of terrorism and said that we should not speak of radical and moderate Muslims, but rather of those who use the Quran for political aims. He did not explain how this understanding meshed with history.

If this is an accurate summary of his position then it it totally absurd. I mean, the Quran is a profoundly political book! The religion of Islam and the political theory of Islam cannot be separated. Rather, a Muslim who does not read and use the Quran for political aims is a bad Muslim. Muhammad, in launching a new state, formed a religion.

It's depressing when you see politicians and church leaders say things like this.

Comments

Azooz said…
Salaam ya Abu Daoud :)

How much media attention do you think the good archbishop gave to Islam, the Pope to? No one could pay the Bush administration that much to mention Islam so often - but they keep on promoting Islam for free. Hollywood has made it so that anyone just hearing the word "terror" automaticaly thinks of Islam and goes read the Quran - bless their black little Hollywood hearts. Christinaity needs that media boost more than Islam does - but good to have it :)

I grew up in England but have been in Saudi since the 70s - a lot has changed and we are now learning Islam ourselves very slowely, if only to avoide the alQaeda trap the CIA set for our young men.

If you do study Islam, please make sure not to confuse Islam with anything Muslims are doing. The Quran tells us to do things and not do others - You can judge how we act as Muslims by that and see us failing for now.

I have read some of your past articles, I disagree with many but enjoyed reading them and hope to read more in the future. The one about "That Famous Hadiith" talks of the time after armageddon - my tribe will be gone by then - another Hadeeth but not so famous :)


Peace
SocietyVs said…
"The one about "That Famous Hadiith" talks of the time after armageddon - my tribe will be gone by then - another Hadeeth but not so famous :)" (Azooz)

Are Christians welcome to come also with your tribe?

I think the idea of seperation of state and religion is one that has been proven can work - but Tibet also proved that a theocracy (of sorts) is not so absurd an idea either - however - I still lean to a seperation of state and faith (which I find quite a good thing). I think Islam in general is trying to develop the ideas of theocracy - but it seems hard to determine if this is a good thing. I think the idea of God being in charge of the state via some human mechanism - is always flawed.
Abu Daoud said…
Salaam ya Azooz,

Thanks for dropping by the blog and you are always welcome. My point on this post was simply that for someone to think that Islam can be non-political has already missed the boat. Non-political Islam is no more feasible than say, democracy without voting, or marriage without sex, or a desert without sand.

RE your little quip about the CIA and al qaeda, I think that is indicative of another, deeper problem within Islamic society which I gently encourage you to scrutinize: The failure to accept responsibility.

I mean, the CIA was certainly helpful in arming the Afghani mujahidiin, but that is not the same as setting an al qaeda trap for anyone. In fact I'm not sure what you mean by that.

So when people who are devoutly religious as Muslims, who know the Quran very well and live acccording the sunnah of Muhammad carry out suiccide attacks, we should not say that I due to Islam. Why not?

Why not? That is the question we need to grapple with. KSA won't be able to really tackle it until people start to accept responsibility for their own actions, and those of their co-religionists.

Have many more thoughts...but they will have to wait for another day.
Azooz said…
abu Daoud - can you please check the link you have - I seem to have read a completly different article than the one I see now - and both differ (I think) from the one you talked about ?

KSA can either accept responcibilty or go to hell, says so clearly in the Quran - anything we taught or trained killers to harm others is totaly our sin and we will pay for it in life or afterlife - before anyone else is judged we will be judged for it, for they are ours and their sins are ours to.


SocietyVs
My tribe is Tameem - welcome - you are among family in times of plenty (ahlan wa sahlan). That is all it takes to be a member, you can also be born to it or marry into it :)

Any tribe that rejects "others" does not survive long in the desert. Beduins are older than both Arabs and Jews. We accept all - poets prefered to men of any religion - no one has ever excused Beduins of being spiritual but we love poetry.

Theocracy in Islam is something I prefer war to. Not in Islam. For others it is fine espeicaly in Tibet - nice spiritual people with a great Dali Lama, no way that would work for hot heads like us Beduins.

The first Imam in Islam was Sohayib (the Roman) - this was back when the Arab companions were busy choosing a leader (khalifa). Imams of Mecca have no political power, and if you see an Imam who knows less Quran than you then you must step up and replace him, and like him you will have no political power either.

The politcal part of Islam is on two levels the important one is building the Muslim society by each Muslim becomeing a better person - more friendly, less agresive, more generous etc - as it says in the Quran.

We are also to have no tolarance for injustice, our own espeicialy. Injustice is the dark sin (tholom) - it is an easy way to hell. This is the fine point that keeps me at bay, I do not like injustice anymore than anyone else - but I am suppoed to fight it harder to please God.
SocietyVs said…
"We are also to have no tolarance for injustice, our own espeicialy. Injustice is the dark sin (tholom)" (Azooz)

What do you do with people that committ injustices in the name of Allah then? What is an injustice - cause I have heard some loosely say 'not believing in Allah or Mohammed as his prophet' as reason enough to harm the individual (namely if they speak out against that belief system). I think injustice and not standing for it is awesome - but it's deciding what is an injustice is where the crux of the debate truly begins. Ready to condemn Osama Bin Laden? How about Salman Rushide? The lines of justice are so blurred I (as a non-Muslim) can even tell this - but what is unjust then?
Azooz said…
I must be ready to condemn myself first, others are secondery to my own criteque - for I will have to pay for all my injustices as they have to pay for theirs.

Injustice towards anyone by anyone has to be punished. If it is not then you pay for it personaly in God's presence. Injustice is a very serious offence to God for Justice is His name and is to be treated with the greatest respect and fear.

>>what is unjust then?
Justice is God and for God, injustice is by others for others. The first page of the Quran is a guide and key to justice, and it needs great fear of God to overcome all internal resistance to justice.

From the Egyptian TV show (Amir ibn alaas):

The son of the first Arab/Muslim governor of Egypt was horse raceing with an Egyptian Christian - the governor's son lost the race, and his injured pride made him beat up the Egyptian.

The Egyptian went to the Khalifa's small mud hut in Arabia, who then called both the governor and his son. He placed a whip in the Egyptian's hand and had the governors son tied. The whipping did not stop till the Egyptian was Fully satisifed with justice (and very tired). The Khalifa then gave him his walking stick and told him to hit the governor to, the Egyptian refused because he knew the governor had nothing to do with it - the Khalifa explained that the son had dared to hit the Egyptian only by the father's power and "prestige".

The governor then went thru a few weeks of demeaning work - but when he went back to Egypt he was welcomed there as no Roman governor had ever been. Egyptians now had a governor that they could have punished at any injustice - this is called Sharia. The Egyptian Christians still do not belive Mohamed (pbuh) to be a messenger of God, that is faith. If I harm anyone of them then I must be punished by Sharia law - that is justice. All injustice will be paid back in full by God - however mighty a Muslim thinks he is, he will someday die and then pay for it in full.

On the other hand - Rome's army was "removed" from Egypt by force. Rome thought that unjust for they considered Egypt theirs not the Egyptians. It is the Egyptian's Egypt now and they talk Arabic much better than most other Arab countries.

Peace

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