Good-looking bishop; Christianity and grace and beauty


I saw this picture over at Canterbury Tales and just thought it was great. The vestments are really beautiful. And that is something that has to do with Christianity and Islam. If Christianity is truer then it has to be more beautiful. Also, kudos to Benedict for staying in good shape.

Christianity without beauty is like Christianity without grace.

Comments

Anonymous said…
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/601/Contemplation_of_Beauty_Cardinal_Joseph_Ratzinger.html
Anonymous said…
"If Christianity is truer then it has to be more beautiful" [than Islam]. What do you mean by this?
Lucian said…
Apropos Islamic beauty: watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=oQQ82W3LfjI

Enjoy! :-) ;-)
Lucian said…
And here's one more, ... just in case:

youtube.com/watch?v=lrYejHGEbZc
Abu Daoud said…
Anonymous: I am proposing, along the lines of Thomas Aquinas, there is one aesthetic. That aesthetic beauty and truth both flow from God, and that if Christianity if the Christian faith does in fact offer a more accurate depiction of what it means for God to be God and man to be man, then it should be aesthetically superior. This would have to obtain in all areas: musical, liturgical, architecture, and yes, in the clerical wardrobe, as here.

Lucian: will check it out.
Abu Daoud said…
Lucian: are you proposing that this music is Islamic? It cannot be because it uses instrumentation.

On the other hand it is at least in Arabic, and any truly Islamic music must be in Arabic, even if it is performed in Turkey or Des Moines.
Lucian said…
Take the instruments away, then, (we don't use them either). And it will still take Your breath away. I'm sorry, but Islam has a lot of beauty also. And I wouldn't say that theirs is a different beauty: the resemblances are striking. The one beauty that they don't possess are Icons. According to Solomonic wisdom, "Wisdom build unto herself a house, grounded on Seven Pillars" ... but Islam only has Five such pillars. :) ;)

The following two are links to Orthodox music:

mystificator.blogspot.com/2008/01/vespers-psalm-140-sung-on-first-voice.html

mystificator.blogspot.com/2008/01/cantor-balan-ioan.html

The second link has a Cantor accompanied by an organ; just imagine there's no organ there (because there is none anyway during our worship services). :)
Abu Daoud said…
Hi Lucian,

I enjoy your comments. I am curious about your remark on icons and would be curious to hear more about it. Muhammad was of course highly critical of icons and it was a main point of tension during the rise of Islam.

I also want to affirm that there is beauty in Islam. The question about kinds of beauty is tricky though. I guess I would have to go back to James and say that there is a heavenly beauty (like a heavenly wisdom) and then there is a false beauty, which is, in the end, counterfeit. I think that both are present in Islam and Christianity as well.

I love Orthodox chant and go to the local Orthodox church fairly regularly, where the liturgy is in Arabic.

May I ask what kind of church you go to?

Finally: I do want to say that Christianity must be more true than Islam, and thus, more beautiful. That was my main point.
Lucian said…
Finally: I do want to say that Christianity must be more true than Islam, and thus, more beautiful. That was my main point.

Well: Beauty is what Truth looks like. Same feelings here. :-) [I'm a Romanian Orthodox Christian].

Muhammad was of course highly critical of icons and it was a main point of tension during the rise of Islam.

Yes; and Iconoclasm began in force in the city of Constantinople at about the same time also. :-)


Islam is constructed on simplified conclusions about things: they believe in Adam and Eve, for instance, but they don't possess Genesis 2:24 in their Qur'ans, so that they might link John 10:30 to it when they first hear it (nor are they aware of Genesis 1:26-27, which would make this linkage not only possible, but also demanded and expected). They know the verse from Deuteronomy 6:4 (the fifth and last book of Moses), but they don't view it through the lens of the first chapters of Moses' first book, Genesis. They are opposed to idolatry, but they unfortunately lack Genesis 1:26-27 and Exodus 25:18 from their Qur'ans. Nor are they aquainted with the Five sapiential books of the Wise King Solomon, so that they might mentally fall back on to them while reading the Five books of John.

They basically lack the *fullness* of things revealed through Moses and in Jesus. The Church is the House of God, based on the Seven Pillars, the Seven Ecumenical Councils; but Islam only has Five such Pillars. :-)
Rob said…
-The Church is the House of God, based on the Seven Pillars, the Seven Ecumenical Councils-

Now, Lucian, I can't let you get away with that! Typing the first seven councils with the seven pillars.

Bah!

Anyway, I have seen you propose on Energetic Processions (Yes, heeheeheehee, I have been watching!) that there are actually, in Orthodox tradition, nine or even ten dogmatic, ecumenical councils.

He's trying to poach you, Abu Daoud. Watch out!
Lucian said…
Anyway, I have seen YOU propose on Energetic Processions that there are actually, in Orthodox tradition, nine or even ten dogmatic, ecumenical councils.

Me? No. Others? Yes.

(Yes, heeheeheehee, I have been watching!)

Yes: I know You know: You've told me that Yourself, silly! Remember?
:-)

[And, in any case, all the more Pillars, all the more worse for Islam, right?] ;-)

I DO like the number Se7en. >;) :D
Abu Daoud said…
Now I have to check out energetic processions. Romanian Orthodox? Who could not love that church when they have Count Vlad Tepes (aka the Impaler, Aka Dracula) who was a thorn in the side of the Ottomans.

The Orthodox will have a hard time poaching this missionary because, to be frank, the Orthodox don't fund missions like mine, as far as I know.
John Stringer said…
What is this problem I have.. since becoming Anglican (coming from a Bible church) I also love the Roman pope.... can anyone take my confession?
Abu Daoud said…
Hi John: my understaanding is that confession is like communion: under normal circumstances you should confess to an Anglican priest (or bishop). But if there is not one available (as is the case in much of S. Europe) or there is urgency (sickness for example, or grave sin, or imminent danger) then you can confess to a Catholic priest.

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